Immersion Cures

[PepperPig]

Hi There,

As a newbie I have been reading your forum with great interest and I am still confused in some parts and will probably bombard you all with various random questions over the next few months!

Firstly, I am looking for an immersion cure for bacon that does not require pumping!
I would like to make bacon rashers that appear to be quite rare or even non-existent nowadays, collar bacon and what we used to call oyster bacon!

What I am trying to get my head round is:

A, The calculation for the brine?

B, The rate of degradation of nitrite as with no pumping, curing times would be longer and maturing time would be required to firm up the joint for slicing?

Could any of you wonderful chaps help?

[saucisson]

Welcome to the forum Pepperpig

Hopefully someone will be along with an answer soon, if not I'll have a crack at it myself.

Dave

[wheels]

Hi there Peppperpig, Welcome.

You've posted two very searching questions - immersion curing calculations are a mine-field!

Firstly, the method of calculation is based on the size of the meat as there is a different method for large and small pieces. Secondly, when curing smaller pieces of meat, the calculation can differ according to the size of the meat or amount of brine.

Forum member Oddley can up with a way around this that uses twice the weight of meat to brine, it is used when curing smaller pieces of meat:

New English Brine


IMPORTANT, ONLY USE THESE RATIOS
2 Parts Meat
1 Part Brine

Brine Ingredients
84.79 % - Water
0.21 % - Saltpetre (700 mg/Kg)
10 % - Salt (10.5% Brine concentration)
5 % Sugar

Method:
You may add to this brine any insoluble herbs spices you like ie: whole coriander seeds, whole bay leaves, whole juniper berries. Bring the water to a simmer and add all ingredients, including the insoluble ones. Leave to cool to room temperature. Meanwhile, allow your meat to come to room temperature, and leave it there for about an hour to encourage the lactic acid flora to grow. Find a tight fitting container of food grade plastic, You will need a tight fitting container, because most importantly you are using the brine, 1 part too 2 parts meat. Submerge the meat below the surface and keep it there with a plate or weight, of some kind. Now put it on the top shelf of the fridge, 5 - 6½°C for 10 days per Kg of meat. Or at least 9 days. turning every other day.

You infer that you will be using nitrite rather than saltpetre - if you let me know whether it is the cure #1 from the sausagemaking.org shop or from another source, I will adjust the cure for you.

In order to maintain an adequate brine concentration this brine may give a very salty bacon -you may need to soak it after curing as you would the ham for which it is intended.

If you are using a whole collar (4 - 6kg?) please let me know and I will try and post an alternative recipe.

As to your question about the degradation of nitrite, in brief it should reduce by about 50% in the first 24 hours, and then carry on reducing quickly to about 20%. (info again from Oddley)

You may want to look at this thread which is where this info comes from:

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?p=35910

Hope this helps

Phil

[PepperPig]

Hi Wheels,

Thanks for the response.

My initial thought on immersion cures, was based on an idea that 1kg of meat and 1kg of water would require 2% of the total weight in salt, cured until equilibrium was acheived. I'm guessing I am way off the mark?

I recall as a butchers apprentice some years back, making up large bins of brine and chucking joints in! No measuring ever took place!!

I felt that I should be using nitrite and nitrate in the cure due to the length of time likely required to cure and mature although if nitrate only is the way than thats fine.

Yes, I am using this sites cure #1

The collar joint in question will be about 3kgs rind on if that is relevant?

Your mention of "adequate brine concentration" suggests to me that there are specific rules and reasons for high concentrations!


Are their any simple guiding principles to aid in the creation of immersion cures?

Apologies if my question seem sporadic. So many questions to ask it's difficult to get them in the right order!!

[wheels]

Pepperpig

Are their any simple guiding principles to aid in the creation of immersion cures?

The best current advice on calculating cures available to us non-professionals is the US Department of Agriculture Inspectors' handbook:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSI ... 7620-3.pdf

Immersion curing is from the bottom of page 26 of the .pdf file (which annoyingly is page 21 of the handbook!)

You will see that there are two methods for the cure calculation; a note goes on to elaborate:

Note: Method One is used for hams, shoulders, bellies, etc., because it takes weeks for these large items to reach equilibrium. Method Two is primarily used with small items with large surface areas such as pigs' ears, tails, snouts, etc.

From this you could deduce that your meat falls into method 2. However, we can surmise that any meat that will cure to equilibrium, of essence, must fall under method 1. We believe that equilibrium is reached in approx 10 days per kg of meat, or around that figure per inch. Logically, a flat piece of meat weighing 5kg will reach equilibrium more quickly that a thick chunk given its additional surface area. If the meat is small - no problem. If it's a whole ham: no problem. It's the in-between grey area that leaves us in a quandary.

Take for example a piece of meat of say 2kg in the same brine as you describe (1kg water, 20g salt). By method 1 the final salt will be 0.666%: by method 2 it will be 0.2%.

If we change the weight of the meat to 1kg:

Method 1 - 1% salt (the salt level has increased)
Method 2 - 0.2% salt (the same as before)

The same change is seen, with method 1, in the level of nitrite when either the weight of the meat, or the amount of brine changes. That's something that we don't want! Before Oddley came up with his 2:1 meat:brine system each cure needed separate calculation.

At what stage method 2 would start to become method 1 with your 3kg piece of meat, I cannot say - however it is fairly obvious that the only way of knowing for sure what result you are going to get is to ensure that it reaches equilibrium and calculate using method 1.

I recall as a butchers apprentice some years back, making up large bins of brine and chucking joints in! No measuring ever took place!!

Yep, and saltpetre added by the handful! I guess time's moved on.

I felt that I should be using nitrite and nitrate in the cure due to the length of time likely required to cure and mature although if nitrate only is the way than that's fine.

I don't use nitrate with bacon, many people, including many large commercial curers in the UK, do though. It's banned in commercial bacon in the US.

Your mention of "adequate brine concentration" suggests to me that there are specific rules and reasons for high concentrations!

10% to 15% brine concentration will give protection to the meat as it is curing. This can be achieved easily and give low salt levels in the finished product using injection or immersion curing under method 2 but is harder to achieve under method 1.

Salt
--------------------- * 100 = Brine concentration %
(Moisture + Salt)

Are their any simple guiding principles to aid in the creation of immersion cures?

Yep, dry cure, or pump cure, or his combined injection/dry cure (elsewhere on the forum); if you want to immersion cure use Oddley's 2:1 system; anything else is an absolute pain!!

Apologies if my question seem sporadic. So many questions to ask it's difficult to get them in the right order!!

Ask away, it's great to find someone who is willing to learn.

Phil

[PepperPig]

Aaaarghhh!!

My poor head!

OK! Dry curing is something I am slightly more at home with, so I believe I would be looking at approximately 10 or 11 days curing time for a whole collar due to the thickness of the joint (4-5 inches)? Plus a few days to equalise? although I would wish to mature for a week to ten days as I'd like the meat to firm up quite a bit and therefore guess that Saltpetre should be included to provide added protection, as your last post suggests that residual levels of nitrite would have all but gone by this time?

I have been using your beginners dry cure calculator for back bacon which has worked out fine for me a few times now and this is this basis I would use!

Crunch time for me then, this is what I made up on Sunday before I had access to all of you!

3kg collar joint
3kg water
220gms black treacle
120 sea salt
32gms cure #1
11gms Saltpetre
2 bay leaves
5 Juniper Berries
10 Coriander seeds

boiled water, salt and treacle. Took off boil, cooled a little and added everything else whilst hand hot. Chilled then added collar joint which is now sitting submerged at 3 degrees in the fridge!

Into the bin I think????

[PepperPig]

Actually It seems to me that this could be rescued with the addition of more water and salt to correct the levels, any thoughts on this option?

[wheels]

OK now here we go!

I'll explain my logic so others can contribute/contradict more easily.

I would add an additional 230gm of salt making a total of 350gm in total added.

Assuming your 10 day curing period we have two possibilities: it will react as per method 1, or move partially towards method 2 of the US calcs:

• With method 1 the amended brine will give: 304 Parts Per Million (PPM) Nitrate, 52 PPM Nitrite, and 1% salt and 0.6% sugar - a bit low on the Nitrite maybe, but you've got the Nitrate as well so although not optimum I can't see why it wouldn't be OK.
  
• With method 2 we would expect that equilibrium would take about 30 days or so. Assuming a steady progression towards it (a big assumption!) we would be 1/3 down that route giving Nitrate of 554 PPM, Nitrite 94 PPM, salt 1.9% and sugar 1.1%. Again maybe not ideal, but certainly nowhere near dangerous.

My only concern would be that Nitrate takes a time to start working; 10 days is a short period for curing with Nitrate, it'll only just have started working (also it likes temps of about 8°C rather than the fridge temps below 5°)

I would up the time in cure to 12 days; whilst this will increase the levels of everything if method 2 applies it will still be in the parameters set in the US, if not the EU.

I would then drain the meat, wash it, and hang to dry for as long as I dared to allow the nitrate that the meat has absorbed to reduce further.

If you do this, when you cook it try the water after 15 - 20 minutes and if it's salty discard it and replace with fresh.

Anyway, that's the best compromise/idea I can come up with at present - Hope it helps.

Phil

[saucisson]

Sounds like a plan Phil

If I may suggest...

When you take it out of the brine, wash, pat dry, wrap in three layers of greaseproof paper, put it in the back of the fridge and leave it there for a week, preferably two. Check after the first week and wash any mould that isn't a white powder off with vinegar.

Dave

[captain wassname]

Phil. just two small points Treacle is only abot 65% sugar and the rest of it would seem to be soluables so not important.

Oddley said to leave water to cool to room temp before adding cure but on this ocassion they were added at hand hot.I wondered if this may be relevant.

Jim.

[wheels]

Jim

Good points.

Phil

[wheels]

Thank goodness for other forum members.

Jim's just pointed out an error in my calculations. I should have said 230 gm of additional salt not 270!

It doesn't make any significant difference - it's the level of cure that was the concern, and if method 1 applies it may even be beneficial! (If method 2 comes in - it won't! )

I can't believe that with all the complicated calculations I mess up the simplest addition.

My post is now amended and a PM sent.

Phil

[saucisson]

It will be henceforth be known as the Whittingstall Effect

Dave

[wheels]

It's alright for him - he's got staff!

[PepperPig]

OK, for those interested, I've now added an additional 200gms salt and this will continue to cure until 24th August. From there a quick rinse, pat dry and matured for two-three weeks, although a taster will be taken after one week to see if it's "heading in the right direction".

I'll let you know what becomes of this.

On a slightly different note, a shopping trip to Sainsbury's today netted me a rather nice large piece of belly for £11.65 (£3.50 per kg). Not where I would normally buy meat but as it looked so good and was cryovac'd with a slaughter date of the 13th on it I was quite impressed. So dry cure streaky on to cure tonight!!