Wet cure advice please

[Bakubod]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and find it fascinating. I live in Baku, Azerbaijan and have had to learn many food processing techniques just to get a decent meal occassionally. I 've been experimenting with wet curing pork legs and have some questions. These have probably been asked before so apologies for my dimness.
Can't find Kosher salt instead use table salt with low iodine content, how does this affect the end product?
Have used several pickling mixes that use salt, sugar and herbs in varying ratios. The recipes have been found on the internet and have generally been good. The meat is grey due to lack of saltpetre. I can get salt petre and Prague #1 and want to start using either/both.
Could you give me a recommended quantity for salt, sugar and water per kilo of meat (bone in or out). If I want to use Prague powder or salt petre do I substitute some of the salt that I already use for the cure/SP?
I would have to carry bags of cure on the plane and they appear to be primarily salt, seems a waste of luggage allowance to carry salt that I can buy here.
After the pickling, normally 10 to 14 days, (this varies so would appreciate a more accurate calculation for pickling time if possible) I usually bone, roll and roast the joint basting with honey. I am building a smoke house and want to start smoking the ham, can I cold smoke to impart flavour and then roast ? My neighbour smokes chickens which taste absolutely fantastic, any tips here would also be welcome.I'll let you know how I get on with this. Thanks for any help you can give.

[wheels]

Bakubod>

Welcome to the forum. You will find it very helpful in all aspects of curing.

Can't find Kosher salt instead use table salt with low iodine content, how does this affect the end product?

I use 'ordinary' cooking salt and have no problem.

Could you give me a recommended quantity for salt, sugar and water per kilo of meat (bone in or out). If I want to use Prague powder or salt petre do I substitute some of the salt that I already use for the cure/SP?

With Saltpetre there is no added salt, it usually comes as pure Saltpetre. Prague powder is 6.25% Sodium Nitrite with the rest being salt, so yes, you have to allow for it.

I am building a smoke house and want to start smoking the ham, can I cold smoke to impart flavour and then roast ?

You can cold smoke and cook afterwards - the normal way with legs (ham) is to 'boil' (in reality poach) at 72 -80°C.

Safe immersion curing is somewhat complex. Most people, on this site, inject the brine, and you will find many recipes for this on the site.

If you can access a syringe, I would suggest that you inject the meat. This ensures even curing and protection for the meat more quickly.

Oddley has posted a cure which does both injection and dry cure:

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=3336&highlight=ham

If you use the search function at the top of the page you will find many others.

I am building a smoke house and want to start smoking the ham, can I cold smoke to impart flavour and then roast ?

Yes, this is the normal way in the UK except that most meat wouldn't be roasted (see previous).

If you are going to use Saltpetre for curing, you should invest in scales that will accurately measure weights of 1/10 of a gram. These can be obtained via Ebay.

I hope this starts to answer some of your questions, If you want to know anything, however silly it may seem, just ask, we've all been there!

Phil

[Bakubod]

Phil,
Thanks very much for the advice especially as I'm learning by trial and error. Interesting that you seem to advise toward injection curing rather than immersion curing. I have an injection pump which is very useful for bigger joints. The leg joints tend to be around 12kg so quite large. I have referred to Paul Peacocks Smoking and Curing book and have tried immersion curing recipes from it. Typically for 10kg meat he suggests 1kg plain salt, 500g demerara and 5gms spices mixed into a gallon of water. This seems to be fairly consistent with other recipes I have found. One recipe uses curing salt instead of plain salt, a direct swap kg for kg. This is where I'm trying to optimise if possible as I would need to carry several kilos of curing salt with me in my luggage. Is there another way, I was thinking I called substitute some salt for cure or saltpetre. Pleased if you could set me straight on this once and for all. Having looked through other posts on the forum I see some injection cures posted by Oddley that I will try mainly as I need less cure right? I thought roasting hams after curing was quite usual, doesn't the boiling change the flavour?
Chickens failed over the weekend, the electricity was off while I was out (I've sourced a generator that might overcome this nuisance). Sorry for the long-winded reply, I guess this comes from tapping into a rich seam of knowledge. Help much appreciated
Cheers
Rich

[wheels]

Bakubod

12kg legs! They are big!

You don't say what curing salt, or how much, is used in the recipe you post but not to worry. As you have a brine pump I would follow Oddley's recipe posted above. Either using the one for Saltpetre alone or the one that uses Cure #1 as well. If you use Saltpetre please note my comment about very accurate scales above.

Please note that cure #1 is not a curing salt that can be used instead of plain salt as a direct swap kg for kg. You will poison people if you do this. The curing salt you are referring to has far less cure in it than Prague Powder/Cure #1.

If you don't want to pump & dry cure I would still use a cure for pumping, I believe Oddley has posted some on here for both Saltpetre only, and for a combined saltpetre/cure #1 brine. Follow his instructions and you can't go wrong. However, the cure #1 calculations in Oddley's recipes are for the cure #1 supplied by this site's owner. If yours is not from him, come back when you have it and we'll re-calculate the figures for you.

You can roast of boil (poach) ham but, in the UK, most ham that is sliced to put in sandwiches etc, rather than to eat hot with a meal, is poached.

Sorry to hear about your electric, I hope it's sorted soon.

When you decide the way you want to cure and the curing salt you will use, come back and someone will be able to give you more definite advice.

Hope this helps

Phil

[Bakubod]

Hi
I've just been given a 200gm bag of special cure which came from Eastman Outdoors in the States. It contains Salt, sugar and sodium nitrate (0.86%). Can I use this to make ham and if so in what quantities? (Honey roast ham is my preference). Could I use it for anything else ie dry cure bacon or pastrami? I've tried curing bacon with salt and sugar over a week, draining and re-applying cure daily but it was virtually inedible (too much salt). I want to try smoking sausages in my smoker but have read somewhere that this needs a certain type of cure. I don't usually add cure to my sausages as they are eaten or frozen. Sorry but have lots of questions. Thanks.

[wheels]

Bakubod

Before I reply fully:
1. Are there any details of the salt/sugar % content?
2. Please confirm that it's definitely Sodium NitrAte not NitrIte.
3. Are there any usage instructions on the pack?

My initial thoughts are that it will cure between 5.7Kg and 6.5Kg of meat as a dry cure. It would not make much brine cure.

Phil

[Bakubod]

Phil
Thanks again for your response, unfortunately the packet is clear without any instructions. The guy that gave it to me does a fair amount of home curing, the cure he gave me he uses for beef jerky. I can only take his word for the contents and he says 'nitrates'. It sounds as though I could use it to make bacon? Your further thoughts much appreciated.
Cheers
Rich

[wheels]

Hi Again

Before giving curing details you should be aware that Nitrate is not allowed in commercially cured bacon in the USA as it is fried at high temperatures. It is allowed in Europe at an 'Indicative ingoing amount' of 300 Parts Per Million (PPM).

Whether you cure bacon (for frying) or just make cured meat (boil/roast) must therefore be your own choice. Again, it is for you to decide on the accuracy of your friend's information about the cure.

Given that, it should be used as a dry cure using 34 gm of cure to each 1 kg of meat. This will give just under 300 PPM. For this cure I would work on something like 7 days per inch thickness of meat but for a minimum of 14 days regardless of thickness, to allow the cure time to do its work.

Hope this helps.

Phil

[Bakubod]

Phil
Very sorry for confusion, have checked with US guy and he says sodium nItrate. This changes things I guess.

Regards

Rich

[wheels]

Bakubod

No problem, I was surprised before when you said it was Nitrate as I was expecting it to be Nitrite.

This will be OK for bacon (try it on belly and if it doesn't work you will only have lost a cheaper piece of meat!).

The EU usage rate for Nitrite is 150PPM so you will need 17.5 gm of cure per 1Kg of meat. However, whilst I can't tell you the salt/sugar levels individually, I can see that the total will only be 1.73% which is low. Bacon would usually have at least this level of salt alone. To compensate mix 9 g salt and 4 g sugar per Kg with the curing salt:

Curing Salt 17.5 gm
Salt 9 gm
Sugar 4 gm
Total Mix 30.5 gm (per Kg meat)

So if you have meat of 2436 gm you would use 2.436 x 30.5 = 74.3 gm of the mix.

This will give a total salt/sugar of 2.63% - only curing, cooking and tasting will determine whether this is the flavour you want - the added salt/sugar ratio may need increasing.

Rub 10% of you mix on the skin side, 90% on the meat. Rub it in well, place it in a bag, and put in the fridge for a week or so, turning it over every day or so. Wash it, dry it and leave it in the fridge for a couple of days, or more, to dry further and mature. Enjoy!

I'm sorry I can't be more specific but, i can only work on the details I have from you.

Regards

Phil