Pork pie pastry

[hiram1296]

Hi,all. I've been interested in pie making for years, but one thing puzzles me, you read the pastry ingredients on commercially made pork pies and its basic flour lard and water, so how do they produce. Very dark brown fatty pastry without burning it, and without boil over? Are they misleading us and adding other ingredients
Regards.

[vagreys]

The pies in the pics in the 5th and 10th posts in this thread were made with a hot water crust pastry: flour, salt, water, lard. The pastry is about the color of light brown sugar when you're finished working it. The darkness of the crust on the finished product may be affected by brushing with egg yolk, whole egg wash, or milk. Boil over is affected by the moisture, fat content and amount of the filling in the pie. These were made in a small, commercial shop, the way all the pies are made. Of course, in large commercial operations, production can be refined and controlled for consistency, but boil over still happens. There are lots of videos of pork pie production on Youtube, and boil over and some pies darker than others happens.

[wheels]

They're not misleading you - apart from seasonings, there's nothing else but flour, lard and water. That's what I use, and what's used around here to make the Famous Melton Mowbray Pork Pies.

HTH

Phil

[hiram1296]

Hi, thanks for your replies, I'm still not convinced, I used to deliver to Pork Farms in Nottingham. They have 2 flour hoppers, one is Turnover Viscount flour and the other is Cold pie Tweed flour. The fat comes in by tanker. Not block lard, the best pastry I have produced is by rubbing in half the lard and melting the rest with water at 26c.
Brian

[wheels]

I guess it depends on the producer. I see what you mean now, do the big boys cheat? Well yes, I'm sure they do. Here's the pastry spec from a supermarket's own pie:

wheat flour, lard, water, animal fat and vegetable oil including hydrogenated vegetable oil (with emulsifier mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids), salt, egg.

...and for a Pork Farm's 295g pie:

Pork Filling (44%), Pastry (42%), Jelly (14%), Milk, Pork Filling contains Pork (52%), Pork Fat, Water, Wheat Flour, Potato Starch, Salt, Wheat Starch, Pepper, Yeast Extract, Sugar, Dextrose, Pastry contains Wheat Flour, Pork Lard, Salt, Jelly contains Water, Pork Gelatine, Salt.

Trading standards would be very interested if they are using other that what they specify.

The real point is though, that you don't need anything other than lard, flour, water and seasonings to make great hot water crust pastry as can be seen in the photo of a somewhat battered piece of game pie here:

http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/?e=539

HTH

Phil

[BriCan]

Hi, thanks for your replies, I'm still not convinced,

If I was to promise to fly you out my way to show how we do it proper like you must promise to buy everyone on here a pint of beer

[corromant]

I've used both of the recipe's on this page http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/?e=157 & they both produce a beautiful golden crust.

Conrad

[crustyo44]

Corromant,
This is my first effort to make these Pommie pies. They turned out extremely well, taste was nice. They are gone already and my wife ordered me to make a heap more. Reminds her of home, being a Pom.
I will try every recipe I find on the forum for these beauties. I might even make some with hot Paprika in them. Oooops!!!
Jan.

[SteveW]

Nice pies Jan.

[MeatWrangler]

I had a go at a hot water crust pie this weekend and it was a bit of a disaster. I planned on using a small cake ring, but when I came to get it out of the cupboard all I could find was my bigger 23cm one. I pressed on regardless, which was probably my first mistake. Anyway, on cooking the pie sank, the top split in a couple of places (despite a vent in the top), and also stuck slightly (to add insult to injury). With all the damage there was no way to pour any stock in afterwards. It still tastes great but it won't win any beauty contests, it's also missing the jelly.

Now, I'm assuming my problems were caused by 1) too big a diameter and 2) pastry too thin

Does anyone with more experience have any pointers for a successful pie?

[wheels]

I'd never be so presumptuous as to recommend my own recipe, so:

I've used both of the recipe's on this page http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/?e=157 & they both produce a beautiful golden crust.
Conrad

HTH

Phil

[BriCan]

I'd never be so presumptuous as to recommend my own recipe, so:

I've used both of the recipe's on this page http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/?e=157 & they both produce a beautiful golden crust.
Conrad

HTH

Phil

I would use his second one as it is a traditional one for hot water pastry, another hint is to leave for 24 hours before using

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXwwDKpC0f8

[MeatWrangler]

Great tips, thanks both! I'll have another try this coming weekend

[BriCan]

Great tips, thanks both! I'll have another try this coming weekend

More reading that may or may not help

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9937&start=45

[AndyH]

I had a go at a hot water crust pie this weekend and it was a bit of a disaster. I planned on using a small cake ring, but when I came to get it out of the cupboard all I could find was my bigger 23cm one. I pressed on regardless, which was probably my first mistake. Anyway, on cooking the pie sank, the top split in a couple of places (despite a vent in the top), and also stuck slightly (to add insult to injury). With all the damage there was no way to pour any stock in afterwards. It still tastes great but it won't win any beauty contests, it's also missing the jelly.

Now, I'm assuming my problems were caused by 1) too big a diameter and 2) pastry too thin

Does anyone with more experience have any pointers for a successful pie?

Sounds like the same issues I have had!

Several times now.

I'm not too experienced with pastry, so got the other half to help me out with this. Still no joy.

Time to invest in a proper pie case I think!